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garybrun
Top of the SpoilHeap
Norway
629 Posts |
 Posted - 21/03/2009 : 21:03:22
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I received this today from one of our French members on my forum.
They have no where to record their finds. I'll give more news as soon as I receive it.
quote:
Dear friends in the other side of the Channel, we are French prospectors, members of the National Association for the metal Detection of Leisure (ANDL) and we have news to give you.
With the issues we face in France, to practice our hobby, we decided to force the French authorities to take a clear position.
Starting a few days ago, we are now sending statement forms, (for recording of our finds), at the Roman Legion Museum of Caerleon, in Wales, asking for an "archaeological asylum".
We just wanted you to be among the first to be informed of our claims by this campaign.
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
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BAJR Host
BAJR
United Kingdom
5939 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 09:58:03
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Is it possible to provide a plae to record in France... I am not sure of the rules there.. so don't want to say anything as yet.
What is the legal position in France?
“When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend.”
William Blake |
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tom wilson
Project Officer Level
United Kingdom
287 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 12:03:13
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Well,that's brightened my day.
This seems like an excellent way for French detectorists to try and wind up the French authorities into doing something at an official, national level. I have to wonder though, why they don't simply set up a fdfd mirroring the ukdfd. Is there something subtle in the back-story that we don't know about? Or is there some advantage to an official system that a peer-run system cannot achieve? Or is this a cultural difference: that French detectorists see this as a civic matter, so it should be managed and financed by a central authority?
Any insights Gary? |
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garybrun
Top of the SpoilHeap
Norway
629 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 12:23:02
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UKDFD has offered a clone of its database to the French guys and also host it for them.
They are trying to force the French authorities into doing something about recording their heritage as there are no systems in place and many of their finds are being driven underground.
I'll find out more details as soon as I get them.
I think archaeological asylum is a brilliant idea.
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
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FrogsJC
Digger Level
France
3 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 18:27:15
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Hello guys,
Thank you for your help.
I'm new on this forum, a french guy.
After our defeat in rugby, thank you for taking us seriously.
Cheers,
Jean-Christophe
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FrogsJC
Digger Level
France
3 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 18:43:12
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Hello Tom,
To answer at your question, it's exactly the big issue in france:
1)Central authority
2)An oligarchy of archaeologists, who think we are too stupid to participate in the preservation of our heritage
Cheers
Jean-Christophe |
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Dirty Dave Lincoln
Top of the SpoilHeap
United Kingdom
625 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 19:23:48
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quote "An oligarchy of archaeologists, who think we are too stupid to participate in the preservation of our heritage"
Jean-Christophe, there are some archaeologists in the UK who mistakenly think along the same lines about anyone with a metal detector.
Good luck with the campaign. |
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garybrun
Top of the SpoilHeap
Norway
629 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 19:57:40
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Maybe you should go to the latest PAS conference and see what the French archaeologist representative says...and then you could ask some pertinent questions?
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
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FrogsJC
Digger Level
France
3 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 18:24:24
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Hello Gary,
In France everything is forbidden, you can take the metall detector only to find the pipes, metal pipes.
We risk prison if we declare our artefacts.
Now, the law is increasingly heavy.
Talk archaeological authority is a dream in France.
We also have a new association (HAPPAH) which want also make a new law for France and for Europe, to forbid the detection.
Below the HAPPAH link:
www.halte-au-pillage.org/
Cheers,
Jean-Christophe |
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Dirty Dave Lincoln
Top of the SpoilHeap
United Kingdom
625 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 22:54:39
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Hi Jean-Christophe,
here in the UK we have a big roblem with rogue metal-detectorists (called nighthawks) who think nothing of robbing archaelogical sites for their own gain, but equally so we have many people who use metal detectors, who do invaluable work in recovering metalwork that would otherwise be lost and many of which are more than willing to work side-by-side with archaeologists-only by encouraging people to come forward with their finds will they be recorded,to penalise honest people will only make the problem of nighthawking worse.
Is there a big problem in France with some metal-detectorist robbing sites? if so, then punishing people who want to declare their artifacts wont make the problem go away. Authorities in most countries find it easier to prosecute honest people than trying to tackle the real problem-that is, those folks who dont want to declare what they find!
How does French law operate in regards to farmers? as many in north-east France have collections of finds from the two world wars, that they find during ploughing-do these have to be declared? or as landowners do they get to keep them for their own private collections? |
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BAJR Host
BAJR
United Kingdom
5939 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2009 : 08:01:07
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Am indeed getting the idea that punishing everyone for the crimes of the few is not the most sensible idea.. (see 30 years of distrust that the UK STOP campaign created!) Once again, acting responsibly seems to be the only option, and a means of recording the past actually helps in the long run.
“When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend.”
William Blake |
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Oxbeast
Top of the SpoilHeap
United Kingdom
575 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2009 : 14:01:52
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| Doesn't this put you (and perhaps Caerleon) in a legally questionable area, gary? If using a metal detector for prospecting purposes is illegal in France, as I believe it is in Ireland, isn't this condoning people breaking the law? |
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Austin Ainsworth
Moderator
United Kingdom
271 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2009 : 14:11:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Oxbeast
Doesn't this put you (and perhaps Caerleon) in a legally questionable area, gary? If using a metal detector for prospecting purposes is illegal in France, as I believe it is in Ireland, isn't this condoning people breaking the law?
Agreed - I'm in favour of helping the detectorist community but not in helping them to break the laws of another country.
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Oxbeast
Top of the SpoilHeap
United Kingdom
575 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2009 : 14:15:42
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| Indeed Austin. Also if people in France are being prosecuted, wouldn't you risk being asked to hand over names? I hope Caerleon has taken legal advice on this one. |
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garybrun
Top of the SpoilHeap
Norway
629 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2009 : 14:38:18
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I knew that woould be a question asked of me.
I am not breaking any law.
Im offering to record the heritage and some where for it to be recorded.
Im not receiving or selling anything.
There is a big differance.
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
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Edited by - garybrun on 24/03/2009 14:41:30 |
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Oxbeast
Top of the SpoilHeap
United Kingdom
575 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2009 : 14:50:58
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I didn't say that you were breaking the law, gary, I said that you are condoning people who are. What Caerleon are being sent is evidence of criminal activity, which the relevant authorities may ask for in the future.
You may think that the law in France should be the same as in the UK, but there are democratic processes for the French to decide this for themselves. I think that you risk undermining the position of the UKDFD as being in support of 'responsible detecting'. How can this be responsible if it is illegal? |
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French detectorists seek archaelogical asylum.
